Let me start of by saying....Let's all close out eyes for just a moment and try with all of our God given might, to imagine what it must have smelled like around that alter of theirs.
blood+ burnt flesh+ middle eastern heat= ?
As I began my readings this morning I at first was greeted with a big giant YAWN....more with the leapers? really?
Burn this, shave that, wash yourself...yadda, yadda, yadda
But then ladies and gentlemen we get to the good stuff....bodies oozing discharge. Discharge of all kinds...on chairs, in beds, on saddles...
So it would seem when a man discharges semen on a woman, they must wash and burn and sin offer? Be it in bed, a chair, or even a saddle.
It would also seem that when a woman has her period she mush wash and burn and sin offer.
Not only must the sex partners or the grumpy, bloated woman wash, burn and sin offer, but so must anyone who touches them.
Therefore are we to conclude that sex (doesn't specify between a married or unmarried couple) and having your period are both sins in which atonement needs to be made?
I get that they are both unclean, who doesn't want a long hot shower after either of these, but I don't get why go so far as to say we need to atone for them. They are both natural and needed for procreation?
We hear a gain from Aaron who sorta gets told he better tremble a bit when entering the Holy of Holies. And we read about all the sacrifices he must make because his sons were such nimrods. Lots of blood, burning, and washing...
Then more stuff about killing animals. You kill something to eat, first you must bring it to the tent and offer it to the Lord. He then keeps some of it and gives it as a gift back to you....I'm telling you what, I'm not sure I would have made it through all of this. I don't know how these people had any time to discharge semen? Its a wonder they didn't die out all together.
Alas, we get to the big one Chapter 18. Again though I'm not totally sure they needed all the sex rules. Maybe that's what He was doing. Like how you try to keep your teenagers involved, keep them busy, so they don't have time to get into trouble.
We learn you don't have sex with your father (sadly too late for Lot's girls), your mother, your aunt, uncle, cousins, your sister, brother, sister in law, brother in law, neighbors wife, sisters, a mother and her daughter....
You shall not have sex with a woman on her period, you shall not sacrifice your children to the fire god (not sure where that came from?) and at last, the one we all know and love.......a man shall not lay with a man as he would a woman...
So....basically the way I see it, having sex with a woman on her period, sacrificing your kids to the fire god and gay sex are one in the same. Not only that but how many people throughout history have married their cousins?
I'm not trying to be a smart wild ass, I'm just trying to see the difference. Again, we have held on to very few of theses Old Testament rules....so why this one?
9 comments:
Funny funny stuff, Ms. Crystal. I've decided to answer your quest. first, then post again if I see an additional point that needs to be made.
As far as the body fluids and th like, I don't think it was so much as sin, as it was uncleanliness. Cleanliness is next to Godliness, remember? OK, I know that's just an old saying, but maybe that's where it comes from (I think I said that before). Because the Israelites made the covenant with God, they are to be kept apart....holy, righteous, clean. Thankfully now, that entails predominantly spirituality (not in the yoga sense, but in the Jesus is my personal savior sense).
I don't think it says cousins cant get it on. Only parents and kids and siblings and the like.
And, yes, this is the FIRST verse (actually arent there two in this reading?) where it says you're not supposed to be a homo. But it doesn't say hate the homo, it just says don't be one. Jesus said hate the sin (don't like, agree with, or support what they're doing), but love the sinner.
I think that's it for the quest. I'm sure Mr. Farren will have something to say about being called a homo. being that he was in the Hair Force, I mean Air Force. Kidding! Kidding. Simmer down. I just wish I were undisciplined enough to read his posts again, they did entertain me so (and Stefen's too). If you'll notice none of my Christian friends are butting in or causing any problems. They know our faith and God don't need defending.
Jamie,
If parents and siblings can't get it on, where did all the humans come from? There was only Adam and Even in the beginning. So they must have gotten it on with their mom and sisters, etc. When did God change the rules? If God is always changing the rules, does that make Him a moral relativist ("typical liberal" in your words)?
Also, why do you insist on making snide comments about Groman and me? Is this the Christian way?
Stubborn faith is not admirable.
In the words of Richard Dawkins, “Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.” You have been taught that a person full of faith is admirable above a person full of reason and flexibility of mind.
Don’t ever brag about being intellectually dishonest.
At the time the Bible was written, both the Hebrew scripture and the New Testament, homosexual acts were just variations of sexual acts.
Crystal/Jamie, it's pretty commonly accepted that during the Greek era when the New Testament was written, homosexuality between an older man and a younger man was seen as a very common form of mentoring.
Whether you agree with it on a moral basis is irrelevant.
It was pedestrian...and obviously common to the region, if historical texts and writings are to be believed (and I have faith ha ha ha that they are accurate representations of the cultures as they were then), it was not frowned upon.
Where we see Paul and others in the New Testament railing about what seems like homosexuality, what they’re actually railing about is manipulation of youth. This is also consistent with other points Paul brings up regarding exploiting the mental and physical state of innocent youth.
It’s really more pedophilia that they‘re railing at in that context, especially among the Greeks themselves and the whole Greek mythic structure.
They’re railing against the Greek way of life. And part of that way of life was this initiation procedure with young boys, and it’s really pedophilia, and the kind of power imbalance which that implies is really the problem.
So, homosexuality is really a bad translation in this context. There were no ‘homosexuals’ at that time, there were only adults having sex in various ways, and one of those was having sex with their own gender.
I'd read this before, and found the actual Hebrew translation for reference....
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Leviticus 18:22, the wording of the original Hebrew is very different from the KJV form:
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind:
it is abomination." [Leviticus 18:22, King James Version]
However, the original Hebrew for Leviticus 18:22 reveals a different 3rd meaning:
"We-et-zakar lo' tishkav mishkevey 'ishshah" [Lev 18:22 Hebrew, Latinized]
("And-with a-male NOT lie-down in beds-of a-woman") [Lev 18:22 literal translation]
So, the Hebrew Leviticus 18:22 mentions: someone + a male + a woman; hence, a forbidden 3-way.
Those 2 infamous Leviticus verses actually mention other women or wives, rather than male-male relationships, as is often the misinterpretation & mistranslation.
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When many aspects of Biblical issues are considered, there is no textual basis for misinterpreting & mistranslating Bible verses to condemn homosexuality: the original Hebrew & Greek texts of the Bible do not condemn homosexuality at all, and so, homosexuality should not be considered a sin by today's society.
I would love to know the significance of some of this...remind me to ask God when we get to Heaven. For example, the blood on the tip of the right ear, thumb, and big toe; blood letting the bird over running water (Is that symbolism for washing away sin (what's unclean, i.e. the blood)?). A double i.e...brilliant!
I think the body fluid stuff, again, is showing Divine inspiration, because, as we know now and they didn't then, how many diseases are transferred thru body fluids. Many ancient cultures at this time and after drank blood, performed rituals with it (where they handled it and smeared it on themselves), became blood brothers, etc. But God is telling them that all this stuff is unclean. I wish we had started a coincidence counter to count all of the "good advice" and knowledge that is in here that either has to be a)Divinely inspired or b) coincidence. Oh, wait, that's right, statisticians have already done that and found that it's a mathematical impossibility.
As the notes on the bottom say...I too am thankful that since Jesus we can all come into the Presence of God, and not timidly, but BOLDLY, and not once a year, but continually throughout the day.
Note the separation of the sin and the sinner for those who are willing by the man who is "timely" (ready and fit) in chpt. 16. That man, of course nowadays, is Jesus Christ.
I don't think it would have been that difficult for the priests to know and follow these procedures because it's all they had to do. Their lodging, food, etc. was provided for them. All they had to do was know these statues/procedures and follow them. As far as the people go, if the forgot anything, all they had to do is ask the priest. I think once they got into the habit of doing these (and not doing others) it wouldn't be as difficult or time consuming as it does to us.
Ok, I didn't see the other verse about homosexuality, but I know there's another one shortly after the one in 18:22. Probably in the next chapter or two. There wasn't anything in there about cousins. But you did forget about the beastiality prohibition.
I guess Seifeld was wrong, there is something wrong with that.
I know you said you did know if you'd respond to my posts today, so here's tomorrow's reading just in case:
Lev. 19-24
Jamie,
Could you please link me the peer reviewed study that shows that the "coincidences" in the Bible are statistically improbable?
Thank you in advance.
Just need to correct yet another one of Jamie's erroneous facts:
Blood brothers existed from Greek, to Mongolian, to Chinese cultures of the day, but not in the north african and middle east cultures of the day.
The Egyptians and people who the Bible was written for, viewed the foreign practice as disgusting and evil.
So, of course, they condemned it.
It was common practice to condemn the cultural expressions and laws of their physical and philisophical enemies of the day and attribute it to being sinful behavior.
Oh, and here's an interesting peer reviewed study about Homophobia:
"Psychoanalytic theory holds that homophobia -- the fear, anxiety, anger, discomfort and aversion that some ostensibly heterosexual people hold for gay individuals -- is the result of repressed homosexual urges that the person is either unaware of or denies. A study appearing in the August 1996 issue of the Journal of Abnormal Psychology, published by the American Psychological Association (APA), provides new empirical evidence that is consistent with that theory."
http://www.philosophy-religion.org/handouts/homophobia.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014
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